She Built a 14,000-Unit Empire by 30 (Then Walked Away)

## No Vacancy with Taylor Avakian: She Built a 14,000-Unit Empire by 30 (Then Walked Away)

**Guest:** Vicky Schiff

**Host:** Taylor Avakian

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**[00:00] Taylor Avakian:** Welcome back to No Vacancy, the podcast focused on LA multifamily. Today, I am incredibly excited to introduce our guest, Vicky Schiff. Vicky, your reputation precedes you. You've built an astounding career in real estate, including an empire of 14,000 units by the age of 30, and then made the bold decision to step away. It's an honor to have you here to discuss what truly separates top-tier real estate professionals in these tightening markets.

**[00:45] Vicky Schiff:** Taylor, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm looking forward to diving into some of these topics, especially as the market continues to evolve and present new challenges and opportunities.

**[01:10] Taylor Avakian:** Absolutely. The description for this episode really hits on something crucial: what separates strong real estate professionals when markets tighten and capital gets complicated? From your perspective, having navigated multiple cycles, what's the fundamental difference you observe?

**[01:35] Vicky Schiff:** It really comes down to a few core principles: work ethic, conviction, and an almost obsessive attention to preparation and execution. In a hot market, a lot of people can look good. Deals get done, capital flows freely. But when things get tough, when capital is expensive or scarce, that's when the true operators shine. They're the ones who show up, do the homework, understand the nuances, and are prepared to execute on a plan, even when it's difficult. It's about being the person who *actually* executes, not just talks about it.

**[02:20] Taylor Avakian:** That resonates deeply. It's easy to be a fair-weather sailor. Let's talk about that execution piece. You built this massive portfolio at such a young age. What was the secret sauce there? Was it just sheer grit, or was there a specific methodology you employed?

**[02:45] Vicky Schiff:** It was definitely a combination. The grit and work ethic are non-negotiable. There's no substitute for putting in the hours and doing the deep dive. But beyond that, it was about understanding the incentives of every party involved, especially on the capital side. We were always looking at how we could create win-win scenarios, even when others saw only obstacles. And critically, it was about building a reputation for reliability. If we said we were going to do something, we did it. That builds trust, and trust is the ultimate currency in real estate.

**[03:30] Taylor Avakian:** That's a powerful point about trust and reliability. Let's pivot to the current market. We're seeing significant shifts in the debt markets. Lenders are clearly structuring risk differently. Can you break down what you're seeing with things like pref equity, CLOs, and loan-on-loan strategies?

**[03:55] Vicky Schiff:** Absolutely. The debt markets are fascinating right now because they reflect the underlying uncertainty. Lenders are still looking to deploy capital, but they're doing it with much more caution and sophistication. Pref equity, for example, has become a much more prevalent tool. It allows lenders to participate in the upside of a deal, often with a preferred return, while still maintaining a senior position to common equity. It's a way to get higher yields for higher risk without necessarily taking on the full risk of an equity investor.

**[04:35] Taylor Avakian:** So, it's a hybrid instrument that bridges the gap between traditional debt and equity?

**[04:40] Vicky Schiff:** Exactly. Then you have CLOs, or Collateralized Loan Obligations, which have become a significant part of the financing landscape, especially for transitional assets. They allow lenders to pool various loans, tranche them by risk, and sell them to different investors. This provides liquidity to the market but also introduces complexity. And loan-on-loan strategies are essentially lenders lending to other lenders, often on portfolios of smaller loans. It's another layer of securitization that helps distribute risk and provide capital, but it also means understanding multiple layers of leverage and incentives.

**[05:25] Taylor Avakian:** It sounds like understanding the incentives behind each of these capital structures is paramount. It's not just about getting the money, but understanding *how* the money is structured and *why*.